tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post6473480743352834399..comments2023-09-06T06:58:32.684-07:00Comments on TO WRITE IS TO BREATHE, TO LIVE, TO DANCE: A Descending Spiral...C. Zampahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-71704296199405366852013-04-10T04:19:25.462-07:002013-04-10T04:19:25.462-07:00You're right, Joylene. They've always foun...You're right, Joylene. They've always found something to hate. <br /><br />And I like that thought, 'No, that is not acceptable beahior in my space.' That is it, exactly!<br /><br />And you, my friend, are a credit to the human race. **Hugs and love***C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-26853186765304146642013-04-09T17:54:07.977-07:002013-04-09T17:54:07.977-07:00Human beings having been hating each other since t...Human beings having been hating each other since the beginning of time. I find that amazing. Each generation criticizes the last, yet we show so little advancement as decent folk. We aren't anymore tolerable than they were 2000 years ago. <br /><br />I think the task we're left with is to keep our focus on staying true to what is Godlike. No judging, high tolerance, respect for all peoples, and the willingness to say, "No, that is not acceptable behavior in my space."<br /><br />You, my dear Carol are a credit to the human race. I think your parents did a fabulous job!<br /><br />Joylene Nowell Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04497637513532136615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-5984394156935604302013-04-09T07:50:21.381-07:002013-04-09T07:50:21.381-07:00Tali! Oh, man, I would love to have known you!
And...Tali! Oh, man, I would love to have known you!<br />And your grandparents sound like wonderful people, embracing their faith and using it to spread their own light. I love that!<br />And the Golden Rule. See, that was what I was trying to say. The same fundamental principals are in every faith. Nothing new, just so simple and pure. <br />Thank you for sharing!C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-41930774387353803172013-04-09T07:44:29.384-07:002013-04-09T07:44:29.384-07:00One of the most illuminating experiences of my chi...One of the most illuminating experiences of my childhood was not growing up with a swinger bisexual politically conservative socially liberal father (itself an interesting time) but when after my parents divorced we went to live with my fundamentalist Christian grandparents. They had their hands full with us, and I was a mouthy free-thinking child, but they were patient as saints. Decent, honest, hard-working Bible-reading people...and when I questioned their faith, they were glad to talk about it and what being a Christian meant. They condemned wrongdoing, never condoned violence against others, and supported charity to the less fortunate. I did not like spending two weekends a month at soup kitchens or delivering holiday meals to the poor, but now that I look back... They loved God through their deeds and prayed for their fellow humans to find peace and love. And they weren't backward thinkers, not by a long shot. We read and talked about other holy books, too, including the Quran, and compared their visions of being godly. They were suspicious of Catholics (my grandmother actually called them Papists) but included the parish priest among people who'd stop in to visit. We talked about Atlantis (Edgar Cayce, anyone), Mu, Asia (missionaries visited a lot) and the difference between belief and faith. Once I eased up on the hostility, I saw that I could take away a few really good things. For one thing, I know my scripture inside and out and backwards, too. :D And can sing about a hundred hymns (but you really don't want to hear that). But I think it opened me up, to be honest, and made me less judgmental. There's this amazing thing called the Golden Rule, and it's the best rule ever. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And it's everywhere. It's in the Quran; it's in the Tripitaka. It's the ultimate human guideline for living with ourselves and others. <br /><br />One of my sons is a radical atheist and every once in a while I call him out when he gets all "the Christians" on me. "Have you talked to any Christians lately? Have you talked to your grandmother?" And then we discuss "The Moral Landscape" intelligently and lay the blame on religious zeal and politics where it belongs. People sometimes get so caught up in defending the rightness of their rhetoric they don't see how they are being just as religious as the nuts.Tali Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01580510151991448014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-36601709987570146502013-04-09T07:43:19.124-07:002013-04-09T07:43:19.124-07:00Hey, Pat!
You hit the key word, 'pretending&#...Hey, Pat!<br /><br />You hit the key word, 'pretending', and that's what those like Westboro and those who are so intolerant are. Well, look at me, judging them. I can't know their hearts, but I can at least say they're misguided. Maybe they think they are earnest, just earnestly wrong. And, even sadder, they are following like sheep whoever is teaching them this intolerance.<br />C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-15480362886530540742013-04-09T07:36:22.794-07:002013-04-09T07:36:22.794-07:00Helen, I'm sorry you suffered that way, too.
A...Helen, I'm sorry you suffered that way, too.<br />And, see, that's the thing.<br />Your beliefs are YOURS. Tolerance is tolernace, period. And includes the tolernace for anybody's personal faith. <br />If I'm using my 'faith' to bash others and promote hate---like Westboro---then, yes, I'm so wrong. <br />They've put such a black mark on the other faiths, and I hope the world will see that one day and learn to see the difference.C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-61040190101595323882013-04-09T07:33:48.762-07:002013-04-09T07:33:48.762-07:00Excellent thoughts, Lou. And you know, he does say...Excellent thoughts, Lou. And you know, he does say 'The' way. <br /><br />But you know what? I'm not sure at all exactly what interpretations of the Bible are totally legitimate. I'd read once that it was a bit 'padded' for the King in the King James version.<br />For instance, there are not 'many mansions' in Heaven, but 'rooms'...LOL. I wonder how much, sometimes, was altered to appease the church during this translation. <br /><br />The basics of the teachings I hold to, as they pretty much are the same as Buddha, etc., and all the ancient teachings.<br /><br />And---damn---I hate that you had the experience of the 'anit-Christian' bashing. Because I often will speak out on that as well. Because my upbringing was strict, too. Hard core at one time. And not a good influence, either. <br /><br />Thank you, love, for sharing your thoughts.C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-13683843936016984142013-04-09T07:27:49.408-07:002013-04-09T07:27:49.408-07:00The way I've looked at it is the one's who...The way I've looked at it is the one's who preach the intolerance and hatred such as the Westboro Church, really aren't Christians. Their entire tenant of hate is exactly what Christ preached against. So it's not Christians that are bad, it's the people pretending to be Christians.<br /><br />But I do know what you mean. I see it on lists where some very ugly words get thrown at people who defend their faith. The only time I get upset with any religious person is when they think they have the right to make everyone live by their faith's rules. <br /><br />But really, if you're preaching tolerance and acceptance, then to be truly accepting, it has to be to everyone, regardless of their beliefs, as long as those beliefs don't inflict hurt on others.<br /><br />This isn't quite the same topic, but I found it upsetting that with the Stuebenville case I have read people who think it was horrible that this girl was raped, that the people associated with it should be raped to 'know what it feels like' Really? You oppose rape, but in certain circumstances, like to punish someone, it's okay? Talk about mixed messages.<br /><br />Good post, Carol. Something that needs to be talked about more. And no, I'm not Christian, but the majority of my friends are and I don't like seeing them or anyone being punished for the actions of a few who like I said, aren't even practising the faith they claim they're protecting.Pat Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08824114343214016153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-40351960160708723632013-04-09T07:26:35.783-07:002013-04-09T07:26:35.783-07:00Liv, thank you for your words. Right on.
And, boy...Liv, thank you for your words. Right on. <br />And, boy, I'll be the first to say that 'unconditional' part is very hard. But it is the way it's supposed to be. <br />Thank you so much for visiting!C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-38227875203812864212013-04-09T07:20:14.320-07:002013-04-09T07:20:14.320-07:00I couldn't agree more! I get a double dose of ...I couldn't agree more! I get a double dose of "Christian bashing" in the circles in which I travel because on top of being bisexual and a pretty out supporter of equal rights, I'm Pagan. And it never ceases to amaze me how people can say "equality for all" on the one hand and "down with the awful X's" on the other (X can really be anything, although usually it is Christians, but sometimes it's something else). <br /><br />But not all Christians are the same, just like not all Pagans are the same and not all gay people are the same and not all straight people are the same. Some people are, saddly, driven by fear and hate; others are driven by love and compassion. What we need more of the latter, lots of open dialogue, and a little more willingness to trust, and learning how to see people as individuals and judge them on their own merits, not the merits of other people (there are certainly *lots* of Pagans whose merits I don't want to be judged by). <br /><br />Thanks for the great post, Carol. We have a long way to go, but we'll get there if we all work together. H.B. Pattskynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05201149134614884167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-1037866192795271912013-04-09T07:10:37.146-07:002013-04-09T07:10:37.146-07:00Carol, nice work on this blog. I've had a rece...Carol, nice work on this blog. I've had a recent experience after I'd expressed something about my own childhood experience growing up in a nominally Christian sect that is sometimes considered a cult, which naturally was quite negative and destructive in my life. I was accused of making anti-Christian statements. This after I'd just come tocthe defense of friends who choose to pray through Jesus Christ. I hear ugly statements, judgmental and uninformed, and yes even violent sound bytes coming from everywhere. There is an exclusive factor in Christianity that by nature is elitist, at least with most translations of the alleged words of Jesus: he said, "I am THE way, the truth," not, one of the ways.Taken on face, that means others are wrong, and excluded. I know many, however, who (possiby like you?) examine the spirit of their God's intenions and find indeed a God of love--for all. If anything will prevail over hate (unfortunately not a sure thing), it will be love, whether seen as sourced from any given deity or simply as a product of open eyes and human heart. Bravo, my friend, for the courage behind this post. Please, don't remove yourself from the discourse, as flawed as it my be.Louhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10240903337772209934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-87833589841032878542013-04-09T06:56:40.597-07:002013-04-09T06:56:40.597-07:00I felt very troubled at those reactions regarding ...I felt very troubled at those reactions regarding Margaret Thatcher's death, too. Deeply troubled. Though maybe regarding her passing as a relief for her might be a point I'd consider, being happy about it is just disturbing. <br /><br />You either believe in human rights and they apply to ALL equally or you're a hatemonger and apply things as it pleases you, that's how I see it. <br />It's horrifying to see people overjoyed at the passing of another human being, whoever they'd be or whatever would they have done. I despise child molesters, for instance, and I might feel inclined to say 'castration' or 'death penalty' for violent crimes (though I don't feel comfortable with death penalty as long as the justice system can ALWAYS get things wrong) , but I'd never enjoy the thought of that being applied, not even to those who've done such crimes against me. <br /><br />I'm an Orthodox Christian though not a church-lover by any means. I've read on the Books of more then one religion, and all of them say the same thing as far as I'm concerned: unconditional love, acceptance, and standing up for justice. <br />Hate is never justice and justice never embraces hate.<br /><br />Thank you for speaking out about this, it's been on my mind too and I'm happy to know I wasn't the only one feeling that way.Liv Olteanohttp://liv.liviaolteano.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-88685254089257337152013-04-09T06:21:34.560-07:002013-04-09T06:21:34.560-07:00I honestly don't feel I am fighting hate with ...I honestly don't feel I am fighting hate with hate, Jaime. I've tried not to be defensive here. <br /><br />And perhaps I should have kept what I felt in silence. <br /><br />But the Christ I've read about DID fight out many times, not always quietly and meekly either. C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-2062121917370405952013-04-09T06:17:49.818-07:002013-04-09T06:17:49.818-07:00Kenzie, I can see some where the antagonism comes ...Kenzie, I can see some where the antagonism comes from. But it's just not all Christians. Not true ones. <br />C. Zampahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08907314323318638669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-14012162889015426782013-04-09T06:15:52.369-07:002013-04-09T06:15:52.369-07:00And the saddest part is, A true Christian will tak...And the saddest part is, A true Christian will take the hit in silence because I've never met a true Christian who fight hate with hate, even in their own defense. I was born and raised a Christian. I constantly fall short of the mark of living up to that birthright in its true meaning. One day, I see the word becoming a pejorative no one wants to be associated with.Jaime Sammshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03756034484406953047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7718751493806122087.post-21997838245738385042013-04-09T06:14:06.977-07:002013-04-09T06:14:06.977-07:00AMEN!!!!!!!
I very quietly expressed my views two...AMEN!!!!!!!<br /><br />I very quietly expressed my views two weeks ago and was raked over the coals by someone I considered a 'friend'. What drives me crazy is, it's okay for certain groups to very loudly express their opinion, but woe to those who disagree with them.<br /><br />It used to be you were 'black balled' if you expressed anything anti-Christian. But now we get 'black balled' for standing up for our beliefs? I think we've slid back into the Middle Ages.Kenzie Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160523410013966070noreply@blogger.com